ROLLING Stones frontman Mick Jagger has paid a heartfelt tribute to late bandmate Charlie Watts, calling his death a “huge loss”.
Charlie Watts, the legendary drummer, died unexpectedly last month at 80. This left rock ‘n’ rolling in deep mourning.
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In a new interview with David Fricke, Mick speaks fondly about the man he shared a stage with for 58 years.
He says: “It’s a huge loss to us all. It’s very, very hard. But we had wonderful times, and Charlie made some wonderful music.”
The sticksman was the heartbeat of the band in more ways than one, with Mick and guitarist Keith Richards reportedly looking up to him as a father figure.
Charlie was known for his unique jazz style, sharp suits, and dry wit. He avoided hedonistic excess.
He was a refined individual who enjoyed conversation about art and cricket, keeping in line with his elegant image.
Mick says: “The thing about Charlie was that he was always there, always played beautifully and was always willing to discuss what to do about it – how he could make it better. He was the rock around which the rest of the band was built. This is why he held it together musically for so many years.
We had many wonderful times together, apart from music. We used to watch cricket together. When we would get together, we didn’t talk about music. We spoke about art, something he knew more than me. He brought a beautiful sense of swing and swerve to the table that many bands wish they had.
“We had some really nice conversations in the last couple of years about how all this happened with the band.”
The Stones will soon embark on the US leg for their No Filter Tour. Next month, a 40th anniversary edition (with nine new tracks) of their classic album Tattoo You will be released.
On Tuesday night the band played a private warm-up gig inside the Dome at America’s Center in St. Louis, Missouri.
The band, which was joined by Steve Jordan on drums and guitar, dedicated the gig for Charlie.
Here, his three Rolling Stones bandmates – Mick, Keith and Ronnie Wood – open up for the first time about Charlie’s death and remember his life.
ROLLING STONES, MICK JAGGER INTERVIEW
by David Fricke
How have the rehearsals been going with drummer Steve Jordan?
It’s going well. We all knew him and had played with him before. He respects Charlie. He was a good friend to Keith and played with him before the rehearsals began. After that, he did his homework, listening carefully to the tunes, and then he went to bed. We listen to the original album first, then listen to the live versions when we discuss Charlie’s work on this record. Charlie taught us certain licks. Although drum licks may not be thought about by the average person, they are part of the tune.
Do you know of any songs that are coming to rehearsals that have not been played in a while?
We have rehearsed between 80 and 90 songs. They weren’t just memorized. We actually practiced them. They are actually possible to be played. That’s a tremendous amount. Keith and I agreed that it was impossible to perform at least 12 or 13 numbers that almost everyone knows.
But one thing you played when I saw you in Berlin in 2018 was a big surprise: “She’s a Rainbow” [from “Their Satanic Majesties Request”].
We played that on the last tour too [in 2019]. It became a very short cut. People learned about it because it was advertised on TV. We have a couple of numbers from the extras in the Tattoo You reissue. We do [the 2020 single] “Living in a Ghost Town,” which sounds pretty good. There are tons of numbers from all eras. This gives us a huge set of numbers. It is possible to change the set list. But we still have to do “Paint It, Black.”
Looking back at Charlie, what was his impact on the sound when he joined the Rolling Stones in January, 1963? He was a serious jazz musician. What did he change in the way you, Keith and Brian Jones played blues and R&B?
Some jazz drummers wouldn’t like to do that. He was not one of them. He wasn’t a rock drummer. We’ve played with many rock drummers in the past. Carlo Little used to be in Screaming Lord Sutch’s band. We also played with him. He had two bass drums – it sounded great. It wasn’t Charlie. Charlie also brought a jazz sensibility. And he wasn’t very heavy. He would sometimes play heavy if I got him mad. That was the only way I could get him to play really heavy – to get him mad.
In “Midnight Rambler,” he did a lot of different things in the space of one song: He got heavy, he could swing, he could do it slow. He was an example of how talented he was.
He was able to do subtle cymbalwork in certain places. Then he could play off my [vocal] riffs with the audience. If you are a singer, your relationship with a drummer will be all about your dancing, accent, and vocals. James Brown’s relationship with his second drummer was the most prominent example. All he’d do was hits when James moved his body or went “Hey, hey.” That guy just watched James, so if he kicked his leg in a certain way, he would accentuate it.
Charlie and I were like that. We would quickly get into a rhythm. He would get it, and I would get it. It was very different from a relationship between a guitarist and a musician. That was my relationship with Charlie. It had been many, many years.
What was it that he found in the Stones which convinced him to join?
Because it was so diverse, he enjoyed the music. He was an evocative drummer. Jazz was something he loved, but let’s not be too harsh. Jazz doesn’t pay. Of course, we weren’t getting paid much. This is why he didn’t join us for a while. We wanted to ask him to join but he was already playing with many different bands. Keith and I had played with Charlie with Alexis Korner. He didn’t come in to audition. We were familiar with what it was to play with him, as well as what it was to play with us. He was a natural fit. He gave a swing to the band – the swerve and subtlety. He could be straight-ahead if you needed him to. “Get Off of My Cloud” – there’s nothing particularly subtle about the drumming on that. He could do it. He had his hands full.
Charlie was a graphic designer by trade and played a significant role in the design and aesthetic of the Stones’ albums, tours and videos. What was his contribution to the band’s image in terms of design and vision?
There were many subtle touches. Album covers are very important for the band’s image. And we learned stuff from [original manager] Andrew Loog Oldham – he was into getting the right album cover, making a statement out of it. Charlie and I started to get involved early on –the fine details of the colors; the way the original photo changes in being printed; choosing typefaces.
There were sometimes mistakes. It was challenging, but it was worth it. We chose art directors who were great people to work with on logos, and other such things. And Charlie was very much a part of the team that designed those really big stages like the one for the Steel Wheels tour. These big stages were created from all of our ideas. I was greatly helped by him.
The 40th Anniversary edition of “Tattoo You” is coming out on October 22nd. What have you rediscovered about that album – and that era of the Rolling Stones – from putting the reissue together, especially the previously unreleased outtakes?
It’s quite a humorous album. This album isn’t one where you can say that we went into X studio for six months, and this is what we came up with. These are tracks that were recorded between 1972 and 1981. It wasn’t really an album. It was all over. It doesn’t have any kind of center.
But for all of that sprawl, the material shows you were constantly writing and recording – and you never threw anything away that might have some use later on.
They were thrown away a lot. Some of them – there’s no top line, no lyrics, they’re in bits and pieces. Some are cover versions like [the Chi-Lites’ 1970 album cut] “Troubles A’Comin’.” But we never finished it. It didn’t include any vocals or guitar solos. I’m able to do this now. Once you find the right track, you can have some fun with it. It’s more alive.
With all that has happened over the past year, there is always the question: Could this possibly be the last tour for us?
Since I was 31, I have been asked this question.
The answer is the same.
I don’t know. It could happen. It’s possible to put on shows if everything goes well in the next year. I’m trying to be focused on this tour.
Is there a special memory of Charlie – an incident or story – that sums up what he brought to the Rolling Stones and how he changed each of you in ways that people might not know?
Charlie was such a quiet person. I can’t think of that incident when he came into the room and said, “We should do this like this!” I can always remember when he sat down and played “Can’t You Hear Me Knocking.” He established this great rock beat, then switched it to Latin jazz.
The thing about Charlie was that he was always there, always played beautifully and was always willing to discuss what to do about it – how he could make it better. Because he was the foundation of everything else, Charlie kept the band together musically for so many years.
Apart from music, we had many wonderful times together. We used to watch cricket together. When we would get together, we didn’t talk about music. We spoke about art, something he knew more than me. The thing that he had was a wonderful sense of swing, and swerve. This is something most bands wish they could have. The band was a great inspiration to me and we had many wonderful conversations over the years.
It’s a great loss for us all. It’s extremely, very hard. We had wonderful times and Charlie played some great music.
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ROLLING STONES KEITH RICHARDS INTERVIEW
by David Fricke
How have the rehearsals been for you, getting the band up and running with drummer Steve Jordan?
It’s been chaos. Thank God, Steve Jordan is as strong and resilient as Charlie Watts. Steve has been my colleague for over 30 years. It was Charlie that recommended Steve to me in the mid-Eighties: “Looks like we got some time off. If you’re going to do anything by yourself, there’s your man – Steve Jordan.” And here he is.
How has Steve’s playing changed the song and sound of the rehearsals!
You don’t change the engine room overnight – which is, of course, what we’ve been working on. Steve and me have been working together in this area since July. At the time, he was just going to be sitting in for Charlie, which was already to Steve like “Wow!”
Steve brings with him a lot of knowledge about the Stones. He’ll say, “No, Charlie plays like this.” Steve is so meticulous, so aware of the seat he’s sitting in. Steve said this to me: Charlie played the drums. He didn’t hit them.
Also, Steve and [bassist] Daryl Jones working together is another thing. It’s extremely energetic and inspiring musically. I was like, “I can’t pick this up. I don’t care who it is. I can’t pick this up without Charlie.” But once Steve and I started to get into it, hey, this is the way it’s supposed to be.
What songs were you able to play in rehearsals, that you hadn’t done for a while?
We came across a couple of hidden gems in this new reissue of Tattoo You which we’d been working on then – “Living in the Heart of Love” and “Troubles A’ Comin’,” a Chi-Lites song. The original track was recorded in the Seventies. Mick dug it out this year: “Hey, listen to this one.” “Hand of Fate” [on 1976’s Black and Blue] – for some reason, that came back to me. I threw it out at rehearsals, and it’s become like, “Oh, yeah!” And we’re playing [2020’s] “Living in a Ghost Town.” We keep up with the times.
Let’s go back to the beginning. Charlie joined the Rolling Stones on January 23, 1963. You, Mick, and Brian Jones had played with Charlie in January 1963 when you were all part of the British blues singer Alexis Korner’s band.
We weren’t getting paid, he was. Mick, Brian, and I had been longing for Charlie. Charlie said, “I’d love to play with you guys, but I need a couple of regular gigs.” Then Charlie started coming to rehearsals, which was all we ever did in those days – rehearse. There has never been a gig.
Charlie was fascinated by the Chicago drummers – [Jimmy Reed’s drummer] Earl Phillips; Fred Below and Francis Clay [at Chess Records]. To him, they were jazz players, not rock & roll, which of course they weren’t either. Charlie managed to cross that fine line. Charlie could make it rock, which is something most drummers would never be able do.
What do you think he saw in the Stones that made him join – and stick with it?
I never did ask him that myself: “Why the hell did you join us, man?” I presume it was something he heard in the music we were listening to and trying to play. Also, he had that sense of adventure: “I’m just going to be another jazz player in a big pond. Or I can hang with these crazy guys and see where it goes.”
The thing that Charlie and I had from day one was we would cringe at the crassness of show biz and its demands. Charlie would rather run a mile than do promos. Charlie Watts’s performance on stage and his persona are largely determined by the way he dressed. He wore a Tshirt, leisure pants and Capezios. That’s all. Charlie was Mr. Style, man. Savile Row was his favorite place to get these suits made. This was his favorite place. I couldn’t tell you as much about his tailor than I could.
With the 40th Anniversary edition of “Tattoo You” coming out on October 22nd, what have you rediscovered about that album and that time for the Stones? It was a turning point in your journey to the Eighties.
It was like the Stones’ cloud of confusion hovering over everything. For me, it was a period in transition. But then I can look back on any album: “Jesus Christ, that was a turning point.” In retrospect, if I can think of an album that wasn’t a turning point, at least to the band, it probably wasn’t any good. Listening to all the albums, I can see that there was a transition period from the beginning. It was all learned on the job. You had to make it up or have it done for you.
Many people wonder if this is the end of their tour. Or should it be a matter of making this tour and finding what feels right and feasible?
It’s more this way. This was a difficult decision. But we’re gonna do it. Charlie was ready for us to move ahead. We expected him to take it somewhere. Steve was, thankfully enough, going to pick up the pickup. However, things didn’t turn out as planned.
Is there a special memory of Charlie – an incident or story – that sums what he meant to you and the band?
I was writing down some things I missed. Charlie was a great comedian. My joy was that I loved to laugh at him. He was a master at finding that perfect spot and he would never stop laughing until you did. His incredible sense of humor was something he kept to himself, unless someone else sparked it. Sometimes it was hard to laugh.
Charlie Watts’ consistency is what I can’t remember. Charlie Watts was my bed, and that was the most important part of being in this group. I could lay down on that bed and I know I would get a good night’s sleep. But, I also know I’d wake up to rocking music. Since I was 19 years old, it was something I had.
It was something that I had always believed. I have never thought about it. Now, I think about it. I also know that I have a man who is very understanding of this in Mr. Jordan. You can’t go anywhere without a drummer.
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ROLLING STONES, RONNIE WOOD INTERVIEW
by David Fricke
How are you feeling about finally going back on tour?
It’s quite surreal. It’s like “I’ve done this before,” but there’s a strange thing – “I’ve never done this before” – in the air as well. Rehearsals go well, and Steve Jordan added another layer to the songs. It’s a very pleasant thing, being carried on the waves – with Charlie’s blessing.
What brings Steve to the sounds and songs?
Steve respects Charlie’s approach and different approaches to drumming for each number. He has adapted it in his own way, adding his energy and kick to what was there before. Charlie would have loved this. Charlie project a certain energy through his sticks but Steve also projects that energy physically. While Charlie was seated still, Steve is moving and the entire drum podium is. Mick can clearly see Keith’s satisfaction.
How did you meet Steve first?
Steve and I have been friends for many years. When I lived in New York, he was always at my house, him and [bassist] Charley Drayton. We used to jam in my studio on West 78th Street. We were the Upper West Side Gang with [Bobby] Womack and [Don] Covay. There was much soul-sharing.
I’m curious to know what songs you played during rehearsals.
There’s things I’ve really enjoyed like “Hand of Fate” [on 1976’s Black and Blue]. And we’re going back down the catalog – “19th Nervous Breakdown,” we do a blinding version of that. When we’re playing it, I’m the biggest fan: “I can’t believe I got the best seat in the house.” “Street Fighting Man” has a new energy.
“Midnight Rambler” It has a fresh approach. We thought, “Oh dear, how are we going to do ‘Midnight Rambler’? Because there’s another language of its own in that song. It takes its own course now, and Steve, if anything, is leading the charge: “I’ll tell ya when it’s gonna speed up, I’ll tell ya when its gonna be dynamic.” To see Keith say, “Okay, then, you tell me” – it was a really different thing. And Mick’s like, “Yeah, I’ll take that.”
It’s interesting that you mention “Hand of Fate.” Charlie certainly put a stamp on it. However, I can also see Steve adding some New York soul to it.
Same thing with “Under My Thumb” and “Memory Motel,” you know? There’s a couple of new songs that I can’t wait for you to hear: [the Chi-Lites cover] “Trouble’s A’ Comin'” and “Living in the Heart of Love.”
Those songs are among the outtakes in the 40th Anniversary reissue of “Tattoo You.” What is it like revisiting that album and your memories of that time for the Stones?
There’s that old Dobie Gray song too [“Drift Away”]. Mick was still into cover versions back in that era. In his own way, he was paying respect to the Chi-Lites and the Temptations when we did things like “Ain’t Too Proud to Beg,” “Just My Imagination.” And it’s been there, that respect for the blues and soul, ever since I can remember hanging out with the Stones.
How did you first see Charlie?
Charlie was playing with my brother Art when they asked him to join. Charlie said to Art, “I’ve got this offer to join the interval band over at the Marquee.” Art said, “Yeah? What are they called?” “They’re called the Rolling Stones. It might be a gig for a year or so.” That was how I first heard about Charlie. Art would then come home to me and tell me about his friend. I was astonished to see them at the Richmond Jazz Festival, 1963. The tent was moving like an eagle. I thought, “This looks like a good thing” – all this Chuck Berry music and blues coming out.
Charlie was a steal for The Stones. Charlie was an important guy for them. They asked him several times to join. Charlie was just better at it. He had a natural feeling. Nobody had to explain, “I want you to play like this or that.” He just had it straightaway, that Stones feel.
How was it when you were on your first tour in 1975 with the Stones?
It was very inspiring, encouraging. And it was reciprocal. You wanted to play right – leave the holes, the right amount of gaps. However, you wanted to be fluid in your use of the instrument. This is the same approach that we take to rehearsals. Our sound man who does our monitors said, “This is the best part of my life, the Stones’ rehearsals. I never enjoy myself more.” You can’t get a bigger compliment than that.
Do you have a favorite memory or story about Charlie? It is a great way to sum up Charlie as a friend and musician.
This is a well-known story, and you have probably heard it before. While we were filming, we were sitting backstage in a trailer, twiddling the thumbs. And somebody said to him, “Charlie, after 30 years, you must have done a lot of hangin’ about like this.” And he said, “Yeah, five years work, 25 years hanging around.” That kind of sums him up.
He was certainly not without his strong opinions. He spoke it with his guitar. He spoke only through his instrument.
This could be the end of his tour. Are the rehearsals telling us something?
I have a feeling we are only scratching the surface. Another unexplored mine is visible. It’s been there for a long time.