You can watch “Spider-Man: No Way Home”This is a stunning experience. Peter Parker (Tom Holland), who was visited by villains representing other franchises (including Alfred Molina and Willem Dafoe) as well as having to deal with the very seismic implications of being portrayed as Spider-Man in the last film. But no matter how complicated Parker’s life gets in the film, it pales in comparison to what it was like putting the film together.
Talked with “Spider-Man: No Way Home’s”Chris McKenna, Erik Sommers discuss what it was like to make the ultimate live-action screenplay “Spider-Man” film – how close did Kraven the Hunter really come to being in the movie, how long did it take to figure out that climax, and whether or not any of the Marvel Studios series on Disney+ impacted the production of Their film.
Extreme spoilers “Spider-Man: No Way Home” follow.
Was everyone signed up when you started? Did you have an idea that everyone would be part of the movie’s production?
Erik Sommers: Well, when we started off pursuing this idea, we all aspired to have everyone that was ultimately in the movie, and we were writing as if, but we didn’t know for sure. That was a matter we had to accept and keep trying to tell the most satisfying story, in hopes that everyone we hoped to have would be able to achieve it.
Did you work in production before everyone else? What was the final distance it came to reaching the wire?
Sommers: I don’t think so. We found that there was a lot of willingness and goodwill by the time production began. Everyone who — and this might be better answered by a producer — but people were pretty much on board, were interested in doing it. I can’t say I recall or ever knew all the details of those discussions, but we were writing with these aspirations of trying to have these people, and what we were hearing as they were reaching out to folks, folks were pretty intrigued and interested in doing it.
Tom Holland spoke about how there was a draft that Kraven, the Hunter, was the villain. Talk about that and how that story might have turned out.
Chris McKenna: I don’t think there’s been a draft of any of the “Spider-Man” movies where Kraven the Hunter didn’t-
Sommers: Wasn’t the villain, yeah.
McKenna says: We have very few ideas, and we all go with the flow. “Kraven? Kraven’s cool.”
Sommers: Kraven is cool, he’s got the fur and the thing.
McKenna: There were many other ideas before the movie was even born. Because we don’t come with any ideas, we all sat at the table once the ink was drying with the Sony/Marvel deal, and all we had was, we ended the movie, the last movie with Peter’s identity being spoiled by Mysterio, and that was our jumping-off point because at least we could cling to that. OK, we know that we’re dealing with the fallout from that, what would happen? This led us to different story paths that weren’t this story. And then, I think, I don’t know if it was Kevin’s idea, the idea of doing something with the other villains and teasing at the very end of this, almost in a tag, was floated.
We came up with stories that would work for the tag, so naturally, we were like. “Well, what if Kraven, what if other villains?”We had many ideas. And then finally one day, I think for various reasons, there were reasons why we couldn’t do certain storylines that, I think it was Kevin goes, “Remember that idea with all the villains that we were talking about for a tag? That Sinister Six idea? Why don’t we just do it in the movie, this movie be about that?”That just opened everything up. How do you get there? Since we were already discussing the idea “It’s a Wonderful Life”Peter went to Doctor Strange to try to reverse the effects of everything. It was obvious that he was going straight to Doctor Strange to get rid of this existential mess. Then it all came together.
You’ve also got to remember, though, when we started breaking the story and even started writing the script, we followed “Doctor Strange 2”The timeline. Pre-production was a time when things were pushed back and changed. We were originally supposed to begin shooting in July 2020. However, it was changed to November 2020. Our release date got pushed from July 2021 to December ’21. There was so much to do. But some of that’s too much inside baseball. But I will say that we were also, though, dealing with the idea, if we’re going to use Doctor Strange, where is Doctor Strange in his life and how are we coming off of that movie and how is it going to affect this story?
Did Peter have a different mentor? Or was it always Doctor Strange.
Sommers: I believe that we were gravitating towards Doctor Strange. When I say “we,”The whole team from the beginning. The main reason for this is probably that Peter wants to make it right. This person has the ability to accomplish such things.
So not only is he a great character who we’d love to see team up with Spider-Man and there’s lots of awesome canon in the source material of Strange/Spidey team-ups, but it just seems, like Chris said, the one thing that we knew we had to deal with, which was a gift more than a curse, the story engine of Peter’s identity has been exposed. We knew that’s going to drive this whole thing and there were different ways he could deal with it. He could try to get his name cleared and find out who sent the video to J. Jonah? But wouldn’t it be way cooler if he went to Doctor Strange and they tried to use magic? Just immediately when you say it, it’s like, “Oh, that’s way more fun. Let’s do that.”
McKenna: A 2-hour trial.
Sommers: There was no courtroom drama, but we did discuss it for weeks.
McKenna: There are many sidebars.
Sommers: Matt Murdock is back, but not in an interesting or exciting way. Get into the details of his legal strategies, and other stuff.
Was the TV aspect of Marvel Studios’ operation a problem? There’s been some discussion about Spider-Man swinging over the finale of “Hawkeye”At the very end, as an example.
Sommers: We were already traveling down this path, and we were already travelling down that road when that happened. “Loki” finale happened. Correct me if I’m wrong, Chris, but I felt like we all felt like that would really, this really helps, this is great because it shows that there’s trouble in the Multiverse.
McKenna: Yeah. McKenna: Yeah. “Doctor Strange 2,”So where is he, and where is his head? So that’s something that we were kicking around. It seems like it’s more like: “Oh, this actually gets him interested in pursuing the Multiverse as a concept.”
Although I feel that there are people better at maintaining the MCU’s bigger strands, such as Kevin, I think we had a good discussion about it. This concept shows you how powerful you can be. “How do we pull in all these other awesome things that you’re doing?” But this movie’s already so overstuffed. There are Easter eggs, I’m sure, that I don’t even know about that VFX and Watts have placed in this movie that people will be discovering for weeks to come. I don’t give it more than weeks, knowing how great the fandom is.
But I do think that we’re always going, “How…?” It’s such a huge sandbox, how can we play with all this stuff? It was unclear whether certain things were occurring in. “Loki”Line up in terms the timeline expanding, and is this the same time as Doctor Strange is casting the spell? I don’t know, I don’t know. There are, I’m sure, the Marvel talking points to that. We were aware of many different things going on, and we could draw from them. How would this affect it? We ended up with our own story, a giant story bear to deal with. We had a first draft that we had lots of other characters in, because it was really the kitchen sink version of this is a big idea, let’s try to put all these things in and then get it as quickly as we can.
The earth fell off the cliff along with the virus and all that ensued. When we were able get a draft, I believe we were all still sane enough. “There’s a lot of fun stuff here, but not all of them fit together. We have to start stripping and honing.”Our producers and director will be dealing with this point. “Are we actually going to get all of these actors who have scenes in the movie?”Erik stated that it appeared like our wishlist was coming to fruition early on. It was clear that many people were simply enthusiastic about everything. “OK, this sounds cool. Tell us more.”
Sommers: I think that a lot is due to Kevin Feige and Marvel, and to Amy Pascal as well as Rachel.
McKenna, and Sony, it was just a crazy thing. We already had done the impossible by having Sony and Marvel get in bed together, we’re really now going to be able to pull people, all these characters from the old series and bring them into this?
Sommers: I can’t speak to it in any detail because I was not involved in any of those conversations, but I just feel like those folks, probably, I would imagine they felt comfortable that this team of people is going to try to do this in a good way. This isn’t going to be fan service, it is not going be some cheap gimmick. I think this team of people is going to…
McKenna: They failed no matter what they tried.
Sommers: …This team of people is going to try to do this in a really satisfying way, which was our goal all along. We’re not just doing this for its own sake. If we’re going to do this, let’s try to really honor all of these characters and all of these movies and make it feel like we’re doing it for a reason, a story reason that has to do with our Peter Parker, but also treats those characters with respect and honors those properties. I would imagine a lot of those folks, hopefully, felt some of that comfort and that’s why they were interested in participating.
Are you able to talk about any characters who fell from the table?
McKenna: I don’t know if we’re allowed to honestly, but there were big characters. But almost too big, because it always became a balancing act of how do we tell not only a story with all these awesome villains that we know we want to bring into this movie, the classic ones, but also how do we make this still a Tom Holland/Peter Parker story so that he’s not completely overshadowed? Because at the end of the day, it’s not going to be a great Spider-Man movie if you’re not telling an emotional Peter Parker story. We had these riches that we had to … This giant idea [with]We had to create a story that felt personal for our main characters, despite all the great actors.
What’s so amazing about this movie, too, is it serves both Marvel Studios and Sony if they aren’t speaking again next week, because Peter is totally divorced from the MCU. It was amazing landing that movie.
McKenna: I think we’re always trying to tell an organic story with Tom Holland’s Peter Parker, knowing that we can’t be reliant on anything else other than he’s got to go his own way at the end of this movie, each movie, and not be reliant on something that we … God knows, I think it’s been incredible, we’ve been a part of this collaboration with Sony and Marvel Studios, and Amy and Kevin. I think we always know that it’s total hubris to think, “Oh, we’re going to end with a certain cliffhanger that will require things that we can’t depend on.”
This should be a satisfying tale all by itself. It can end here, which is great. If this is it, then this is the end. “Oh, this was all …”You can look backwards and see the future. “This was an origin story that took place over three stories to get this Peter Parker to this place where he’s stripped-down, anonymous, has no billionaire benefactor, has been through the sacrifice of what it really means to have this power and what that responsibility that goes along with that is, and is now having to look for how to pay rent.” I think that would be really satisfying, I think that’d be really cool.
Was it difficult to interact with the returning actors again? Toby did Toby? [Maguire]Andrew [Garfield]Do they have any ideas for what they want from their characters? We’ve heard Willem Dafoe talk about what he wanted, and I was also curious how he wound up being the central villain again.
McKenna, It was a highlight of my life and one of the scariest moments. I was on-set during production. “Willem wants to take a walk with you.”We were in Pinewood Studios at the time, but Willem wanted us to discuss Norman Osborn. He was interested in where we were and what our plans were for the character. It was amazing to talk for over an hour. He approaches each role professionally and talked about the continuation. What can we do to continue that story?
Because that was also a part of it. We’d already seen the movies so many times, trying to figure out where each character’s coming from their movie. Erik and me, for us, just kept going. “This is the moment in the movie that he comes, you have to know…”All that was required was to immerse ourselves in the movies. Willem, Alfred was a joy to be around, and he was obviously so in love being back on set, playing the old character. He was just so charming.
Andrew and Toby then came along and we had some ideas on how we could dig into their characters. But they had their own ideas, which were fantastic and it was a great experience. “yes, and …”The whole idea of three brotherhood, with an older brother and middle brother and a younger one, was a good fit for me. Toby bringing this Zen-like attitude, he’s been through a lot, but he is this elder brother. Looking at Andrew’s origins, Toby was organically on the same page. He just built on that, the idea for after. “Amazing Spider-Man 2,” let’s be true to where he was at the end of that movie and maybe he’s not in the best place right now and maybe he has something to prove to himself and to others, maybe he’s cut himself off from other people and this is an opportunity.
I think that line where he’s like, “I’ve always wanted to have brothers.” I think he’s leaning into that idea of he’s cut himself off from others after the end of “Amazing Spider-Man 2,” and this can be a journey for him too to start healing and finding a light in that darkness that he’s found himself in. Leaning into all those things were just part of our conversation with each other, making sure that each character was distinct and specific and it wasn’t just a curtain call for any of these characters. We really wanted to just organically pull them out of their movies and their lives and their journeys, where they are, be specific to that and it can’t just be showing up without any context.
Tom mentioned that when you started shooting, there wasn’t a third act or the third act wasn’t solidified. How did this process develop?
Sommers: Well, the third acts are traditionally tricky, because we know it’s going to involve a big action sequence and we know we’re drawing everything to a close and so it’s always a challenge and it’s always something that you’re working on through production, trying to hone down and sharpen. This movie was no different except that we had more moving parts, and had to deal with all the characters. We worked on it until the end.
It was always there, but it was being worked on. That’s the great thing about working with this team of people, Sony, Marvel, Pascal and Jon Watts, it’s never just, “OK, well, let’s just rest on our laurels. That’s fine.” It’s just like, “Let’s keep trying to make this as good as possible, let’s keep working on it as long as we can to make it as good as we can.” We were always working on it, and all the way up to the day we’re shooting it, we’re working on it. I’m just so glad it turned out the way it did.
McKenna said: We had the moving parts. Curing the villains was an evolving idea. But, pre-production was where we started to really focus on the idea of Goblin as our main antagonist. We thought that May’s death was a natural story element. It felt like she knew, and Peter had to see that.
It was also the fact that we had these items, we had the magic magic spell and this magical box. We knew we had these items. During production, we were creating documents about the magic spell and the box. I think it was November of last year, it was Erik and I working on this document while we’re doing daily pages, while we’re shooting, really trying to hone what does the spell do, what does the box do? How can we make these clearer? They are so funny about the term “goobers” in Spider-verse. But it really is, it’s like how many goobers can you put in this movie that also has all these characters?
We were trying to refine these goobers. At a certain stage, the idea of his identity being erased was baked in, but for a different reason. The idea of stopping this influx was born. The question was when and how would he accomplish it? And when would it be a life-altering decision? The scene in the donut shop was where he believed he would walk into the scene, reveal his true identity, and get his loved ones back. And then, he makes his final difficult decision of his entire life. It all happened during production. That was how it all started to take shape. I would put November or December last year as the date.
Sommers: When you’re facing any Act 3, you ideally have set up a lot of things and you need to pay them off and draw them to a close and everything. You must also tell the story of your main character’s emotions in the most satisfying manner. You’re trying to tell the best story, so everything has to be in service of that. So that’s why we keep working on these things — it’s not just because, “Oh, this will be the coolest visual thing.” That’s all considerations, of course. Always. But it’s all in service of the character and the journey of Peter Parker.
That’s your North Star, and that’s what’s guiding you. And so when we keep working on these things it’s just because we want to make sure to have the most satisfying fun Act 3 finale of this movie that draws all this stuff to a close in the most satisfying exciting way, but it’s all in service of telling Peter Parker’s story, and so that’s the refining process that is always happening.
“Spider-Man: No Way Home”It is currently playing in theaters throughout the Multiverse.
