Mystery, suspense and jaw-dropping plot twists – it’s no wonder true crime is one of the most popular genres of podcast. Yet, it’s arguably the most difficult genre to make.
This involves complex ethical and moral decisions, legal hurdles, and tough editorial decisions. After all, you’re not just messing around here: you’re dealing with real lives and, often, raw traumas.
Although anyone can now start a podcast, it takes skill, patience, and time to make a true crime podcast that is both meaningful and chart-topping.
All you Sarah Koenigs who are aspiring to be Sarah Koenigs have good news! has spoken to two masters of the trade: Alexi Mostrous, the man behind last year’s stand-out hit Sweet Bobby; Winifred and Winifred Robinson are the seasoned BBCA journalist recently published The Boy in the WoodsA series about Rikki, the murdered schoolboy.
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These experts share their insights and tips on what makes an audio piece that is both gripping and serves a greater purpose. True crime is more than satisfying morbid curiosity.
How do you choose the stories that you tell?
For many people “true crime” conjures up tales of decades-old disappearances or unsolved murders, but this doesn’t interest Alexi and his team at Tortoise Media.
“We try to do stories that are more forward-looking than traditional true crime podcasts, so it wouldn’t be up my street to look at a case that had been unsolved for 20 years or it a completely cold case,”He elaborated.
“I think often with those sorts of stories, a) they’ve been done quite a lot, and b), they don’t necessarily have public interest elements attached to them.”
Alexi, who was Head of Investigations previously at The TimesAccording to, podcast subjects have two main elements: a strong narrative core, which is a compelling story with central characters, and a larger social objective.
In other words, he’s looking for something that makes the story bigger than itself; something that will provoke a discussion of, and even action on, wider issues. Take, for example, his most recent series Hoaxednot only tells the mind-bending tale of one of Britain’s most toxic conspiracy theories – that there’s a satanic paedophile ring operating out of Hampstead, north London – but it also explores how such misinformation campaigns are able to spread and mutate, and why law enforcement consistently fails to crack down on digital crimes.
Alexi’s podcast series “Sweet Bobby”, topped both the Podcast Charts on each side of the PondTom Pilston at Tortoise Media
Winifred’s motivations are similarly altruistic: for her, it’s important that the projects she takes on give a voice to people “who aren’t normally heard in the media”.
“For me, journalism has always been about justice, and particularly justice for people who are disadvantaged, because I come from a working-class background myself,”She elaborated. “So I think it’s important to ask yourself before you start, ‘what do I want to achieve with this?’”
The broadcaster acknowledged that while many of us love learning about crimes due to our fascination with the darker side humanity, “that’s not the kind of podcast”She does.
Her goal with The Boy in the WoodsWas to “draw attention to the life of Rikki and look at what might have helped him”. She hoped that this would encourage more thought into how society can better support children and families who are vulnerable and help prevent atrocities like these from ever happening again.
What are the essential ingredients for a great podcast about true crime?
Alexi enjoys podcasts that have the public interest at heart.
He explained: “For me it’s important for the investigation to have a live element where you don’t quite know where it’s going to go.
“I like releasing episodes before we’ve finished writing the series – this enables us to pick up on peoples’ reactions, and allows sources to come forward after listening to the first couple of episodes, which we can then integrate into later episodes.”
However, this approach isn’t without its downsides, as he acknowledged: “It is quite a stressful process. If you’re releasing episodes weekly, you’re having to report, write, record, sound design, all of that stuff within a very tight period of time. But it does add a feeling of spontaneity .”
Winifred worked for years to create her podcast, “The Boy in the Woods”.BBC Sounds
Winifred loves suspense, but a satisfying ending is the key.
“I think it’s really important that the story should have an ending because otherwise it’s not a very satisfying listen, is it?”She said.
Still, Winifred clarified, a good ending doesn’t mean a tidy conclusion. She gave the example of Serial, pointing out that at the time of the series’ release, listeners didn’t know whether the protagonist Adnan Syed was guilty or innocent. It worked because the final episode brought the case back to the table, concluded the discussion, and opened the door for new developments beyond the podcast.
Winifred gave a literary illustration to support her point. “If you think about the great novels of the 19th century, they all had these very neat endings. Then when you move into modern literature, novels have messy endings because life has messy endings. But they’re still wonderful novels.”
“The journalist also stressed the importance of firsthand interviews and real testimony.” “that’s what makes”Podcast for her
“What I love is when a journalist includes all the interviews you’d expect them to get, and some you wouldn’t even expect them to get,”She said. “Because if you’re calling it ‘true crime’, you expect testimony from people who were part of the story firsthand.
“When I hear another podcast that I really admire, I just think, ‘Whoa, they got that interview, they persuaded that person to speak.”
What time should you devote to your podcast creation?
“It’s really dependent on the topic,”Alexi said. “I think that if you’re given a particularly exclusive piece of content – like a witness statement or the draft of the book – you can make a podcast out of that pretty quickly because you’ve got a central piece of information so you just have to fill in the bits around it.”
That’s what happened with Sweet BobbyAlexi and his co-workers had their central character and access to her key witness testimony, so it took only a few months to produce their award-winning series.
But, The Boy in the WoodsHowever, the entire process took seven more years.
Winifred stated that she had been a reporter covering the shocking death of Rikki, a six-year old girl, in November 1994. The story had remained with her for many years. To briefly summarise it, Rikki disappeared after leaving home for school one day and was later found dead in the woods next to the Peterborough council estate on which he’d lived. Although his mother Ruth Neave was initially charged with the murder, he was later acquitted. It wasn’t until April this year that Rikki’s real killer James Watson, who was 13 at the time, was finally convicted of the crime.
And yet it was in between those two dates, in 2015, that Winifred and her producer Sue decided they wanted to tell Rikki and Ruth’s story in the form of a podcast series. This is because, despite, regularly writing to Ruth over the years asking to speak to her, Winifred didn’t get the green light for an interview until that year, some nine years after the horrific crime was committed.
But within months of their long-awaited first meeting, Cambridgeshire police reopened its investigation into Rikki’s death and instructed Ruth and Gary to cease contact with the media. This was something Winifred & Sue accepted wholeheartedly. “the last thing we would have wanted was to undermine [the force’s] efforts in any way.”
The next major obstacle came in February 2020 when Watson was charged with the little boy’s murder, and any reporting that might influence a jury was suddenly strictly prohibited. The Covid pandemic, which delayed trial until 2022, was the next major obstacle.
This is the lesson: If you want to create a well-constructed podcast about true crime, it might take more time than you think. It could take a lot longer.
Rikki (left) and Ruth (right), as they leave his funeral in 1995PA Images
How can you establish a rapport with your sources and characters?
“I think it’s one of the trickiest aspects of the whole process,”Alexi said. “In a lot of cases you just have to keep plugging away at it.”
He explained, to illustrate, how, when making HoaxedHis team had established contact to mothers of children from the school where the satanic conspiracy claims were being made. But, given the sensitivity of the situation, these women were very nervous about being interviewed and, ultimately, wouldn’t speak on the record for the podcast.
And yet, in the end this didn’t matter, Alexi explained, because “the more positive experiences we had with other people, the more that fed back to [the mothers] so the more they trusted us. Then, by the end, they were helping us a lot in the background.”
He continued by highlighting one of the many benefits of podcasting: “Because you’re working on slightly longer timescale than you would be with a newspaper article, your relationships with sources can develop. So just because they might say ‘no’ to you in week one, that doesn’t mean it’s a complete disaster – your relationship might evolve.”
Winifred also emphasised the need to earn your subjects’ trust, saying: “You have to be honest about what it is you’re going to do. You can’t mislead people.”
She spoke out about the time Ruth Rodgers and Gary Rodgers were willing to allow for the making of The Boy in the WoodsHe told Winifred that he was sorry. “just be firm but fair and tell [the story] from all sides”.
“And that’s what I tried to do,”She said. “I didn’t promise anything.”
The However, You and YoursThe importance of taking notes was also highlighted by the presenter “no”For an answer, get in touch with potential sources first.
“To ring people out of the blue can be OK but if the answer’s no, it’s no,”She said. “People have to want to talk to you, particularly when it comes to a podcast, because it’s going to be online for a long time. You’re never going to persuade someone who doesn’t want to do it.”
Which are your biggest challenges?
“For me, it is the bureaucracy,”Alexi stated that this is especially true when it comes to negotiating access for interviews or sensitive information. This can cause serious headaches, particularly given the fast-paced nature of his team’s podcasting process.
“The real issue is when sources says, ‘OK, we might be interviewed but we wanted written agreement’,”He elaborated. “But then, after receiving the written agreement they come back with, ‘OK, we just need to get our lawyers to look this over. We’ll be back to you in 10 days’.”
This is not very helpful when you’re tied to a strict schedule and releasing episodes weekly.
“That sort of thing can really drag out,” Alexi continued. “And then you have this real kind of Sophie’s choice where you think, OK, either I say, ‘You’ve got to decide now, yes or no,’ or you think this person is important enough as a potential interviewee that you’re going to let it play out.”
Alexi acknowledged it might be hard to get people to speak for the record.Tom Pilston at Tortoise Media
Winifred shared her main struggles with The Boy in the WoodsIt also meant tying people down. But in Rikki’s case, it was all about finding the interviewees. Rikki passed away almost three decades ago. It was difficult to find people who were there then, she said.
“Even when it comes to the people who gave evidence in court at the time, you don’t know where they live now,”She said.
Sue, the dedicated producer of her project, used a search engine that combines phonebook records and electoral rolls to find potential sources. Side note: There are many of these websites now, including 192.com And TruthFinder.)
Once they’d gathered the relevant contact details, Winifred and Sue travelled to Peterborough and knocked on a lot of doors.
“It’s old-fashioned, maybe, and not easy but it can be very gratifying,”The presenter stated that. Because even when you don’t find the exact person you’re looking for, there’s often someone there who might be able to point you in the right direction.”
What does the podcast medium offer that others don’t?
“It’s got to be different,”Alexi said. “There’s a lot of true crime out there so you’ve got to have some sort of USP.
And, again, he emphasised the importance of a “live element”Where “you’re not just telling a historical story, you’re trying to find out new stuff.”
He explained that the key to this approach was accepting that you, as host, are also a character. “You are not in a godlike position where you’re just imparting information to people. You’re starting at point A and you are going to point B and you’re not sure what you’re going to find at point B, but you’re going to bring the listener along with you.”
An experienced editor said that ambiguity was one of the best aspects of podcasts, as it is missing in many TV documentaries.
“You have space as a reporter on a podcast to say to your listener, ‘I’m just not sure about this; I’m a little bit nervous; I don’t really know how to react to this’,”He stated. “But with newspaper articles all of that sort gets put to one side and you just present the findings.”
This more open approach is especially celebrated “freeing”He also added: “I think this kind of journalistic process where you’re brought along on an investigative journey, with all its frustrations, works for the listener too.”
Alexi said that the best part about being on an investigative podcast was his team. “Your producer, your sound designer and your executive producer are as important as you are,”He stated.
He spoke about sound design, which includes everything from music to sound effects, voiceover editing and music. “You can do some really cool things and make it a little bit theatrical. For example, you can have sound coming in one ear and going out the other.”
Alexi also thanked his colleague Carla Patella who was responsible to create the site. Sweet Bobby’s gripping ambience. “The sound was so good that I really think it was an integral part of its success,”He stated.
Winifred, a long-time radio broadcaster, believes podcasting has unique benefits for storytellers.BBC Sounds
Winifred also highlighted the incredible benefits and freedom of podcasting as an media medium.
“It uses the techniques of filmmaking and drama by building in a soundscape and letting the audio breathe,”She said.
She explained that for The Boy in the Woods she and her team weaved in recordings made on Rikki’s estate, both in the immediate aftermath of his death and more recently. This was done by using music and real-life sounds to mix past and future, creating an audio time capsule and window into the life of the little boy.
Winifred also argued that podcasts offer a unique cinematic quality.
The long-term BBCThe host stated: “A broadcast programme on the radio has to have be of a certain length because we’ve got to meet certain junctions – the time, the weather the news and the hour, another programme that begins or ends before you start – but episodes on a podcast series can be all different length because you can just give each one what you feel is worth. And I think that’s really liberating a storyteller.”
She added: ”When writing a traditional radio documentary script I’ve always thought that you shouldn’t really hear my voice for more than about 45 seconds. Podcasting allows me more detail. Podcasting allows you to break up your script with music and other effects. This makes it more interesting. This means it’s not a dull listen.”
The end…for now
Respecting the form of a good true crime podcast, we will now leave you with a question to consider…
You’ve got the inside knowledge, and the recording equipment shouldn’t be too hard to get hold of – what’s stopping you from making a Sweet Bobby Oder Boy in the woodsDo you want to be your own?
Radio 4’s ‘The Boy in the Woods’ is on BBC Sounds Get it now. ‘Sweet Bobby’ “Hoaxed” and “The Truth About It” All major streaming platforms offer them.
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